File: 
Date: 7/2/95
Start Time: 9:10:04 PM
End Time: Unknown

Participants: BABE777, BWMill, CaNastrom, Cweidler, DJenk97336, Filipita, GFA Beth, GFH Mark, GFS Chuck, Hubrock, HyitzSteve, JGauvin122, JHubertiii, Kamaro96, LaurelEgen, MsRoots, Neeneebert, Searingtwn


GFH Mark   : ok, Beth... Researching funeral home records is a much-neglected genealogical tool.

GFA Beth   : We will be following Protocol as soon as Mark begins.

GFH Mark   : These seldom-tapped records can be a goldmine for the researcher, often yielding information unobtainable elsewhere. First, we will look at what you can expect to find in these records, and then we will discuss methods for gaining access to them.One category of information in these records is the death certificate data. Contrary to popular notion, the funeral director, not the doctor, is the person responsible for initiating and filing the death certificate. So, in the funeral home file will be much of the basic genealogical information about an individual: full name, date and place of birth, date and place of death, marital status at death, name of spouse (if living), name of father, full maiden name of mother, place of residence at death, occupation, whether the person had military service, name and location of cemetery. In some cases, the parents' places of birth -at least the state- will be included. Also listed will be the name, address and relationship of the "informant", the person who supplied the information to the funeral director. All states did not require death certificates until the second decade of this century, so earlier funeral homes records will not yield as much of this type information as more recent ones. There may be only an entry in a daybook regarding the charge for the funeral!  Even after death certificates became required, compliance was spotty for a while, and many funeral directors merely filled out a certificate form by hand and filed it with the health department but failed to make a copy for the funeral home file.   There is much more to be found in the typical funeral file. The funeral direcor is also responsible for placing obituaries in the news media, so the file will probably have a list of the surviving immediate relatives: spouse, children, siblings, parents. Sometimes the names of grandchildren, in-laws, and other relatives are included. The city and state of residence of each of those listed is usually noted. In addition, there is usually some biographical information: former residences, educational institutions attended,  employment, church affiliation, military service, memberships in clubs, lodges and other organizations, hobbies, civic endeavors, personal accomplishments, honors, etc. There may even be mention of the individual's ancestors and perhaps siblings who had died before this person. Even the person's date of marriage may be noted. There will probably be a list of the newspapers in which the person's obituary appeared. You can use this list to obtain copies of the actual obituaries. There is one caution at this point: ALL of this information MAY be accurate, or it may be rife with errors. It is only as reliable as the person who gave it. For that reason, you should plan to use what you obtain from the funeral file as a guide to further research. If possible, everything should be verified by documentary evidence from official sources: birth certificates, marriage records, etc. In many cases, the funeral home records will also contain copies of some or all of the following: military service record, marriage certificate, birth certificate, insurance policies,and last will and testament. There may also be details about the location of the grave and the type of monument or marker there There may even be a photograph of the person in the file! Other items, not necessarily genealogical but interesting, are notes about the funeral services: officiating minister, pallbearers, music, etc. Now that your appetite for these records is sharpened, we come to the hard part: gaining access to funeral home records.The most important thing to remember about funeral home records is that they are PRIVATE records and the funeral home has NO obligation to permit you to examine them. Your unexpected appearance at the funeral home office demanding to see funeral records from decades ago would likely  kill your chances of EVER getting the information. Funeral homes are not in the archives business, so older records are usually not readily available, IF they still exist at all! Many funeral homes keep recent records in file folders in cabinets easily accessible to the staff. These are usually kept alphabetically by year. Others use bound funeral record books, in which the records are entered chronologically, with pertinent papers kept separately.Seldom is an index maintained, so knowing the year of death is usually required. Even when there is an index, it may be incomplete due to clerical oversights in entering names over the years. Practices vary among funeral homes, but usually older records -after ten years or so- are placed in storage..in the attic, or basement, or garage, often in no particular order .As a practical matter, they are then very difficult to retrieve. In many cases, particularly with firms over a hundred years old or that have changed ownership several times, the very old records have either been destroyed or no one presently on the staff has any idea where they are! I recently spoke with a fellow funeral director who is the current head of his family's mortuary that has been under the same family's ownership since 1882. He has NO records prior to 1945! During a move to a new location in the 1960s, all the old records were thrown out! Another complicating factor is the funeral director's reluctance to release information that might be sensitive. A family he has served has entrusted him with some private information that they might not want passed out to just anyone, so the funeral home might require approval from the family before releasing anything to you. This is particularly true of records for deaths occurring in recent years. In any case, you will probably not be allowed to browse through the records; most likely, you will be required to ask for specific information and a staff memebr will retrieve that for you from the file. Since retrieving old records is not an everyday activity and is usually a bother (dank basements, stuffy attics, dusty boxes), many staff members are not very cooperative.This is especially so if the researcher shows up at an inconvenient time.The best way to obtain information from these records is to write ( yes, write) the manager of the funeral home, asking for specific information about a specific individual. Enclose a stamped, self-addressed envelope and offer to pay for any copying expenses. While the manager might not do the actual search, you can be reasonably sure that he or she will be receptive to your request and will see that it is answered. You may hit it lucky and receive photocopies of everything in the file. Unless there is a lot of material to copy, there will probably be no charge for the copies. After all, the manager, perhaps more than anyone else there, knows the public relations value of accommodating requests like this.If you are personally acquainted with anyone on the funeral home staff, you might be able to arrange a personal visit and, with luck, an opportunity to peruse the files in which you are interested. Be forewarned, though, that you might wind up with the job of organizing the old files!  That could be a real pill!  The founder of my firm, which started back in 1905, kept records for years on the backs of used envelopes; (times were hard back then.:) In cases where a firm has gone out of business, the old records may have been taken in by another firm in town or they may have been taken home by the owner and now rest in some relative's attic. The local librarian or genealogical society may know who and where. In many cases, old funeral homes records have been transcribed or microfilmed and can be found in the local library. If you need to contact a funeral home in a distant place, you can visit your local mortuary and ask to see its directory of funeral homes. Every funeral home has at least one such directory, commonly called "Red Book," "Blue Book," or "Yellow Book." These list every funeral home in the United States, Canada and many foreign countries, with addresses and telephone numbers.  If you do not know the name of the funeral home which handled the funeral, ask older relatives if they remember, refer to obituaries that might have been clipped and kept, or inquire at the cemetery office, IF there is an office and IF you know which cemetery. If you have obtained a copy of the death certificate, you will find the funeral home noted on it. Where there are

LaurelEgen : ?

GFH Mark   : several funeral homes in the town, you can narrow down the search by determining which would have been in business at the time of the death. The directories mentioned above contain ads from many of the listed funeral homes; these often note the year the firm was founded. You can also ask one of the funeral directors about which firms would have been in operation at the time. There may have been ownership changes, and the firm you are seeking is still operating, but under a different name.  Most funeral directors are fairly knowledgeable about the histories of the funeral homes in town and may be able to help you determine which one you need to contact or be able to help you locate the records if the firm no longer exists. If all this fails, you can always inquire at every funeral home in town, hoping to score a hit at one of them. Remember that most funeral directors are nice people and will respond favorably to your request if you go about it in the right way. Beth, I'm ready for questions now.

GFA Beth   : Laurel is first.

GFH Mark   : Laurel?

LaurelEgen : I came in late, but what kind of records do funeral homes have?

GFH Mark   : Laurel: death certificate info, etc.

JGauvin122 : ?

GFA Beth   : Q: JGauvin

Filipita   : ?

Kamaro96   : ?

GFA Beth   : JGauvin, you're next

JGauvin122 : Would they have death certificate on Native Americans

GFH Mark   : Go ahead, JGauvin JG: yes, if they handled funeral

GFA Beth   : Queue:  Filipita, Kamaro.  (Please wait til Mark calls on you)

GFH Mark   : Felipita:?

Filipita   : What types of records do the cemetarys keep.

GFH Mark   : Name, DOD , DOB.  Next-of-kin Kamaro?

Kamaro96   : I have adress. of both F Homes how can I locate microfilm if any?

GFH Mark   : Are fhs still operating?

Kamaro96   : No both are in Detroit near Burton Historical Library

GFH Mark   : Kamaro: local library MAY have microfilm of their old records

Kamaro96   : Thank you

GFH Mark   : Ask at library re old fh records any more questions?

Searingtwn : ?

Kamaro96   : No thanks

GFH Mark   : Searington?

Searingtwn : What can be done to impress upon cemeteries and funeral homes the importance of saving records?

GFH Mark   : Making them aware of importance to researchers

HyitzSteve : !

GFH Mark   : Go ahead, HyitzSteve

HyitzSteve : Great lecture! 12 years searching...Never thought of this source.  Thank you very much

GFH Mark   : I'm a funeral director and know these are well worth research efforts Any more?

CaNastrom  : ?

HyitzSteve : ?

GFH Mark   : CaNarstrom?

CaNastrom  : Do you need to show any kind of prrof of relationship to see these records?

GFH Mark   : CaNastrom: depends upon how sticky the particular firm is about that... Wouldn't hurt to have ID on hand

GFA Beth   : Queue:  HyitzSteve.

GFH Mark   : HyitzSteve?

HyitzSteve : Can we get previous lectures from this forum or do they follow a repeating cycle or ?

GFH Mark   : Yes..Beth?

GFA Beth   : Steve, they are uploaded to the Lectures library.

Cweidler   : ?

GFH Mark   : Cweidler?

Cweidler   : How soon will this be uploaded?

GFH Mark   : I defer to beth

GFA Beth   : It should be in the library by Wednesday.  This is part 2 and so there will be 2 files in the lectures library.

BWMill     : ?

GFH Mark   : BWMill?

BWMill     : Where is the lecture?

GFA Beth   : We just finished the lecture on Funeral Records. Mark has been answering questions

Kamaro96   : ?

BWMill     : Oh darn

GFH Mark   : Kamaro?

GFA Beth   : BWMill, you will be able to download the log from the Lectures Library

Kamaro96   : How were bodies prepared back in the late 1800's

GFH Mark   : Kamaro: Embalming was practiced in many places, particularly larger cities Small towns and rural areas : bodies were often prepared by family & neighbors

Kamaro96   : My ggfathers records indicate he was 60 he was 51 how took down info

BABE777    : Hello ALL!

GFH Mark   : Kamaro: Whoever gave info erred...happened a lot that's why FH info needs to be verified elsewhere Any more questions?

Kamaro96   : No   thanks

JHubertiii : !

GFH Mark   : JH?

JHubertiii : thanks I enjoyed my first venture

GFA Beth   : Thank you Mark for a very informative talk.

GFH Mark   : enjoyed having you, JH

DJenk97336 : ?

GFH Mark   : Happy hunting, everyone1

GFA Beth   : [applause] for Mark. DJenk, go ahead.

DJenk97336 : Is there a new MACPAF.. any time soon?

JHubertiii : {clap, clap,clap]

GFA Beth   : DJenk, well they keep telling us there is, but.... Mark, you missed your applause. :)

DJenk97336 : How about the microsoft genealogy program any good

GFA Beth   : We are no longer in protocol.

Kamaro96   : ?

Neeneebert : hello any info on Trigg county KY?

Searingtwn : !Thanks, Mark for the lecture

GFA Beth   : Kamaro, go ahead.

Kamaro96   : Will Mark be back again soon?

GFA Beth   : I didn't know MS had a genealogy program.  I use Reunion for the Mac.

BABE777    : Does anyone have any info on Stephen DECATUR?

GFA Beth   : Kamaro, Mark is still here.

MsRoots    : Thanks, Mark.

DJenk97336 : I read a newspaper article on it in a bookstore in the section they sell the software  Just wondering 

Kamaro96   : I would like to know what states we are all in

BABE777    : California here!

GFA Beth   : DJenk, I have not heard of any MS genealogy software.

Kamaro96   : Michigan

GFA Beth   : CT, here.

MsRoots    : Nebraska

DJenk97336 : UT

Neeneebert : ?what's protocol Virginia

GFA Beth   : Neeneebert, protocol is used when there is a lecture, and we do not want the speaker to be

BABE777    : ? Does anyone have info on the Surname NISSEN?

GFA Beth   : interrupted during the lecture.  So, when people have questions, they type a ? or a ! for a comment

GFH Mark   : hI, EVERYBODY! i WAS "BUMPED"

Neeneebert : thnx beth

GFS Chuck  : Mark, welcome to the club.

GFA Beth   : Then the speaker calls on them.  After a chat is finished, we stop protocol.

GFH Mark   : LOL

BABE777    : ! Well since nobody can help me I will be going!

GFH Mark   : Beth: did I miss any questions while I was out?

Kamaro96   : How did neighbors prepare bodies without  help

MsRoots    : Bye, Babe, have a happy fourth

GFA Beth   : Mark, in case you missed it, you were loudly applauded. No Mark. :)

BABE777    : Yah..... you too MsRoots THANK YOU!

GFH Mark   : Kamaro: the body was not embalmed... it was bathed, dressed by neighbors Welcome, Hubrock

Hubrock    : Greetings...Any discussion going on?

GFH Mark   : Hubrock: We are in open chat now.   Lecture is over

DJenk97336 : We are looking for extended info on two names, Bench and Jenkins.  Bench baby was left on a bench in

GFH Mark   : Hubrock: jump right in

GFA Beth   : Mark gave a chat on Researching Funeral Records.

DJenk97336 : England.  Jenkins was a pirate who changed his name to Jenkins so no one would know he was a pirate?

Hubrock    : Of course...sounds interesting.   When can I download the file?

Kamaro96   :   Does any one know how much a head stone would cost (simple)?

GFH Mark   : DJenk: sounds like a tough one

GFA Beth   : Hubrok, It will probably be released on Wednesday.

GFH Mark   : Kamaro:  flat granite stone about $ 250 in Tennessee Kamaro: Is it for a veteran?

Kamaro96   : I have more ancestors with out and would like to get some  no vet

Hubrock    : Re: headstone cost, what about lettering costs?

DJenk97336 : Very tough it was in the late 1700s no leads